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This 12-minute segment is from an interview from the DuLuca Live radio show, WDJQ FM, Canton, Ohio. Complete information on the Grass Lake case can be found at http://www.haunted-places.com/grass_lake_encounter.htm. An article on the Alchemy of the Paranormal by Dennis William Hauck is at https://www.alchemylab.com/paranormal.htm

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